Question Toronto or the Middle East?

[sy barite]

There is no need for violence, ever.

Right. Well I'm glad we got that out of the way. Moving right along...

 

[snoopdoggie]

Just another reason to hate the amerikkkan media: if a Muslim person does anything wrong, it mentions that he's Muslim in the HEADLINE and links his behaviour to Islam, but even after all the horrific things that scum like epstein, weinstein, madoff, polanski, allen, abrams, rumsfeld, feith, krystal, wurmser, wolfowitz and dershowitz have done, not a SINGLE mention that they are jew or linking their crimes to their satanic/zionist talmudic religion. #BDS

I don't agree. I believe Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddists, and others, are all treated pretty much the same. But I don't follow Amerikkkan media. I follow American media instead. What channel are you on?

 

[sy barite]

Hamas does not represent all Palestinians, just like zionists do not represent all Jews. The false dichotomy you have portrayed is not helpful. A one state solution where all citizens have equal rights and can all vote and mobilize freely is essentially like any other democratic state in the world. What's wrong with this? The oppressed will be free, and the oppressor will not have to worry about retaliation any longer.



This is a fear expressed by all people who do not know real violence. Those who do know real violence, oppressors and oppressed, do not want it. Go speak to a veteran and ask them if they have fond memories of going to war. The overwhelming answer is no.

When speaking about moral equivalence, ask yourself this: who displays the virtuous conduct of morality, the Palestinians who accepted European Jews in 1948 and who were driven out of their homes as thanks for their acceptance of the migrants, or the ongoing Israeli apartheid regime that has been on a mission to eradicate all Palestinians (Christian, Jewish and Muslim) from the land for the past 73+ years?

You don't get to start the story where you want to. First principles thinking is necessary to build true knowledge on this issue and to look for viable solutions to resolve the ongoing problem.

As evidenced by your "no violence ever" statement, you seem to be out of touch with the facts of real life.

While I hope it's true that most Palestinians would accept a compromise that could let everyone live in peace, the fact is that the folks who they keep putting into power openly advocate for genocide. Where do get a charge of "false dichotomy" from that? Under those circumstances, a one state solution cannot work. And yes of course I will repeatedly call attention to the moral deficit between the two sides, because there's ample evidence of it. About 28% of the population in Israel is Arab. The have representatives in the government, they sit on the Supreme Court. Can you imagine that being true for any Jewish population trying to live in an Arab country?

As for history, recent or ancient, I'd be glad to discuss the points with you. The state of Israel was born into war. The coming into existence of the state was literally greeted with declarations of war by Arab states on Israel and it was declared to be a war of extinction. Israel won because they had to. I don't know about you, but if I had a neighbour who was constantly trying to set fire to my house and kill me, I'd look rather askance at his whining for peace after I'd successfully defended myself. We see this pattern over and over, the most recent incident being only the latest example. You do not get to indiscriminately lob rockets at a a populace and then complain when the other side retaliates, treats you harshly , or even takes your land. That is what war is. If you want to dance, be prepared to pay the band.

As for first principles, they are tragically and almost comically simple in this case. For cultural and religious reasons the same scrap of land is sacred to both sides and one side is unwilling to live with the other in peace. Until that changes, violence will continue.

 

[Deleted member 82509]

You respond to that video with a quote from the moronic Rushdie? lol There is no hope for you idiots lol

Rushdie was right he's laughing now unlike your buddies bin ladden and Sadam love will always conquer hate u moron

 

[sy barite]

Your opinion does not equate to fact lol



There you go again, making assumptions and dichotomizing. What you really mean to ask is "are there any Jewish politicians in predominantly Muslim countries?”, because not all Arabs are Muslim.

The answer is yes.

Yevda Sasunovich Abramov was a Jewish politician in Azerbaijan
Nancy Dinah Elly Khedouri, Ebrahim Daoud Nonoo and Houda Ezra Ebrahim Nonoo are Jewish politicians in Bahrain
Joseph Aslan Cattaui, Hillel Schwartz, Shmule Hayyim and Joseph de Picciotto Bey were Jewish politicians in Egypt
Manuchehr Eliasi was a Jewish politician in Iran
Siyamak More Sedgh and Morris Motamed are Jewish politicians in Iran
Robert Assaraf, Leon Benzaquen were Jewish politicians in Morocco
Andre Azoulay, Maguy Kakon are Jewish politicians in Morocco

Moreover, your bias is severely clouding your judgment because you fail to recognize that Palestinians did not come to Israel lol European Jews migrated to Palestine and established a European settler colony in the Middle East by illegally occupying and annexing Palestinian land. The "Arab-Israelis" meaning Palestinians who are offered Israeli citizenship are still not offered equal rights on par with Jewish Israelis and "Arab-Israeli" Knesset members are also discriminated against Palestinians in Knesset face deep-rooted discrimination

Your arguments crumble like a stale cookie lol



Your rhetoric is telling of your views. You like to change the story to fit your liking. We cannot engage in a serious conversation if you are going to apply revisionist narratives. European Jews did not declare war and take over Palestine. They migrated to Palestine to escape persecution in Europe. Palestinians accepted them but when they (the Zionists) decided it was time to take over by creating a Jewish only state and driving the indigenous people out of the land, of course the Palestinians did not accept this gesture following their acceptance of the migrants. Who would? Israel did not win anything because they had to (the land was gifted to them by the Brits). Israel was created because Europe wanted to get rid of their “Jewish problem”, their words, not mine, and this creation was based on the unsubstantiated narratives offered by the racist political zionist movement. Zionists were also the first people to introduce terrorism to the region with Zionist suicide bombing and other atrocious acts. Rewriting the story to fit your liking (or parroting zionist propaganda) does not help to move things forward in a positive direction.

Israel instigated the most recent flare up, not the Palestinians. You cannot possibly be this oblivious lol It is shameful and ludicrous to presume that Palestinians should not retaliate and resist the Israeli apartheid regime. I stated that violence is never the answer, and I believe this wholeheartedly. At the same time, Israel is not open to communication because the Israeli apartheid regime is not interested in peace. This is a key fact that you do not acknowledge and you use the same tired tactics of blaming Hamas for everything lol The perpetual instigator and provocateur is the Israeli apartheid regime.



Again your rhetoric is astoundingly pro-zionist, it’s shameful. Until you are able to come to terms with reality and acknowledge the true events that led to the occupation of Palestine and the ongoing apartheid regime that commits acts of genocide against the Palestinians, further discussion is unwarranted because I am not interested in delivering accurate accounts of history to people who are uninterested in learning and are only interested in propagating false narratives.

Your habit of using terms you don't seem to have a firm grasp of and lobbing accusations you don't back up make me think you must be young.

For the record, Israel did not begin the violence in this latest round, unless you consider eviction arrived at by due process to be "violence". They certainly responded with violence, and did so quite efficiently.

You talk of apartheid regimes...right, because countries and like Saudi Arabia, Iran and even Egypt are so inclusive.

Discussing things with folks like you is like trying to nail jelly to a wall.

 

[Deleted member 82509]

Yes yes, thank you for your astute insight and intellectual input lol

Great guy that Sadam was him and his family killing innocent people his children raping women they got what they deserved if u support that kind of shit your just a brainwashed moron

 

[sy barite]

If you are old and this stupid, it's your problem, not mine. I'm not lobbing accusations, I am highlighting behaviour and logistical flaws in your argumentation based on the facts relating to the history of the creation of Israel, it's continued occupation of Palestine and oppression of Palestinians, and the lack of international involvement to correct these wrongs and dismantle the last remaining apartheid regime in modern history.



The record according to whom? You? lol

"Eviction" is the improper term you use to craft your rhetoric. The correct term is "planned forced expulsions", which according to the United Nations amounts to war crimes. Israel has no right whatsoever to execute such planned forced expulsions. The only reason Israel executed these expulsions is to continue to implement its mandate to eradicate Palestinians from the entire land "by all means necessary", Israel's words, not mine. You have no argument here lol



Aha! When you run out of regurgitated talking points because you see your arguments being decimated one by one, you resort to red herrings to redirect the conversation lol This is child's play lol

The only thing you've exposed is ignorance.

Let's see if we can do this simply. In your view, do Jews have any right to live in Israel? Simple yes or no question.

 

[Cool-Story-Bro]

Funny how you don’t address indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel, first.


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You expect zero reaction ?

 

[Cool-Story-Bro]

When Hamas hides behind children, that’s not Israel killing kids.


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Humus Hamas, who cares.
Toy rockets vs advanced military
14 polocemen arresting 13 year old girl, world saw on the internet.
You need a newer excuse bud

 

[Cool-Story-Bro]

If my neighbour was using his house or allowing his house to be used to fire rockets at my house, under international law yeah I’d have to minimize civilian death but I’m allowed to bomb the whole friggin house. I don’t have to let my enemy kill me so that his terrorist arse and kids can live.

As to Israel’s “apartheid” regime, most people who say this don’t have any real knowledge of apartheid regimes and Israeli life. That being said, neither do I. but simply calling Israeli apartheid without really explaining the issue, is cheap reasoning.

I’m not really pro Israel everything. I don’t like the land grabs or the abusive army conduct that leaks out. that being said, I don’t think anyone who supported Palestinians really know how nasty they are against Jews. That’s kinda why Israel said ah fuck it we are done. country time.

no Arabs country really likes the Palestinians. Palestinians have rebuffed peace too many times. they wanted it all back and Jews gone. So that being the case, when my enemy is being crazy and won’t accept peace offers, yeah at that point I’d say screw it I’m doing what I want.

Irish loves Pestine.
You really sound a pro Israel. Giving neighbor example, dude you kick them out of their own house & stole their land & expect him to shutup.

 

[sy barite]

"plejews"? that's a new one! What's that?

Yes, everyone has a right to live in Israel, immaterial of their ethnicity, religious beliefs of level of pigmentation of their skin.

Where are you going with this? My entire stance has been one of inclusivity for all.

I'm glad you agree Jews also have a right to live in Israel. The stated position of Hamas and Fatah, the only two groups with a practical shot at representing Palestinians, is that they may not. So what is your solution?

 

[jimmyd]

You're a one trick pony (labeling, repeating false narratives, rinse and repeat) lol I've seen this show several times on this thread. Do you have anything new or meaningful to offer?

As for pussy, not sure if you've noticed, but nothing is open, and you started this thread. So go bang your head against a wall lol

Yes, I have a vested interest in all human rights. Sue me for caring about others and for not being a racist asshole with minimal education lol

Do you not remember saying “let’s get back to the pussy”? But now “nothing is open”? You’re such a loser.

I can talk about this all day.

I love the fact you have yet to condemn violence and lawlessness. I guess it’ll never come. But that was the primary point of this thread.


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[jimmyd]

I'm not going to be silenced by morons lol I'll stop when I'm satisfied lol

Said the guy who said this forum is for pussy.


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[jimmyd]

Conversing with you is exhausting. I clearly stated how and why Hamas was established (had a racist apartheid regime not been established in the first place, and had the occupation and oppression of Palestinians not been executed, there would be no reason for resistance or retaliation and therefore, the creation of Hamas in 1987, almost 40 years after the creation of Israel).

Your inability to recognize or acknowledge this is concerning. And, I clearly previously stated my stance that a single state solution where all citizens are afforded equal rights, the right to vote and to mobilize freely is the single best solution for all. In essence, let everyone live freely with full and equal rights as citizens.

You and others have this warped vision in your minds that Palestinian freedom comes at the expense of Israeli security. This is because Israelis know they are wrong and know what they would do if they were oppressed, because they are actually doing it to the Palestinians (who are not their oppressors). Instead, Israelis are transferring the oppression they experienced at the hands of the Nazis to the Palestinians (who have nothing to do with Nazi Germany, the Holocaust, or the persecution of Jews). The Palestinians were never aggressors or oppressors. They were living peacefully before European Jews migrated to Palestine and began their campaign of apartheid and genocide. All Palestinians want is peace and the ability to live full and complete lives. This is a human right that is not afforded to them because Israel is currently a racist apartheid state - this philosophy needs to change immediately.

Zionism is a mental illness borne out of fear of extinction. The problem is that this racist aggression is pointed at the wrong people (the Palestinians). So, zionists now rationalize, in their irrational minds, that the existence of Palestinians threatens the identity of Israelis, hence their demonization of Palestinians and the sick notion that they need to be ethnically cleansed. The sooner the Israelis abandon zionism, the better the circumstances will be for everyone. This is the essence of the pro-Palestinian protests - freedom for Palestine and for Palestinians.

Why do all anti Semites try to hide it with all the Zionist talk?

If Palestine and Hamas are not 1, why don’t the Palestinians #BDS Hamas first? Is it a coincidence that we never hear the condemnation of Hamas?

I guess maybe it’s the same reason you don’t condemn it. Neither does the media.


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[jimmyd]

1947

UN Resolution 181 — the “Partition Resolution” — was passed in November 1947, and called for the creation of a Jewish state and an Arab state. The country of Israel would be split, with Jerusalem as a separate independent district.

The Jewish Agency, which represented existing Jewish residents of the region, supported the plan, while the Arab Higher Committee rejected it, threatening war alongside other Arab countries.

Violating Resolution 181 and the UN Charter, Arab nations invaded and were defeated. Had the Arab Higher Committee accepted the resolution instead of choosing to invade, a Palestinian state could have existed since 1947.


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[jimmyd]

Who said millions of people should be killed? Another Dumbass comment from a Dumbass person. Should we expect anything different?

You said 75 million should be. I guess you forgot?

It’s ok, everyone else saw it.


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[Deleted member 82509]

Great guy that Sadam was him and his family killing innocent people his children raping women they got what they deserved if u support that kind of shit your just a brainwashed moron

Yet u support people like Sadam and hamas the cowards of this whole thing it's like bono from u2 said when talking about the French rock concert terrorist attack there the death cult were the love cult u fuckers will never win moron

 

[Sybarite]

Since Israel is totally at fault for everything and Hamas has no other option but to indiscriminately launch thousands of rockets given they way they've been mistreated, I really wonder why the U.S., Canada, the European Union and Japan amongst others all designate Hamas as a terrorist organization? That sure sounds like a lot of very smart, powerful people who have got this entire situation totally wrong.

After the death of Osama Bin Laden Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh told the world he considers Bin Ladin to be a martyr and an "Arab holy warrior". No doubt Bin Ladin also had zero choice in any of the purely defensive actions he undertook either... everything Bin Ladin unleashed surely must have been totally provoked by the West.

 

[sy barite]

Conversing with you is exhausting. I clearly stated how and why Hamas was established (had a racist apartheid regime not been established in the first place, and had the occupation and oppression of Palestinians not been executed, there would be no reason for resistance or retaliation and therefore, the creation of Hamas in 1987, almost 40 years after the creation of Israel).

Your inability to recognize or acknowledge this is concerning. And, I clearly previously stated my stance that a single state solution where all citizens are afforded equal rights, the right to vote and to mobilize freely is the single best solution for all. In essence, let everyone live freely with full and equal rights as citizens.

You and others have this warped vision in your minds that Palestinian freedom comes at the expense of Israeli security. This is because Israelis know they are wrong and know what they would do if they were oppressed, because they are actually doing it to the Palestinians (who are not their oppressors). Instead, Israelis are transferring the oppression they experienced at the hands of the Nazis to the Palestinians (who have nothing to do with Nazi Germany, the Holocaust, or the persecution of Jews). The Palestinians were never aggressors or oppressors. They were living peacefully before European Jews migrated to Palestine and began their campaign of apartheid and genocide. All Palestinians want is peace and the ability to live full and complete lives. This is a human right that is not afforded to them because Israel is currently a racist apartheid state - this philosophy needs to change immediately.

Zionism is a mental illness borne out of fear of extinction. The problem is that this racist aggression is pointed at the wrong people (the Palestinians). So, zionists now rationalize, in their irrational minds, that the existence of Palestinians threatens the identity of Israelis, hence their demonization of Palestinians and the sick notion that they need to be ethnically cleansed. The sooner the Israelis abandon zionism, the better the circumstances will be for everyone. This is the essence of the pro-Palestinian protests - freedom for Palestine and for Palestinians.

So here's what your contribution to this conversation amounts to.

1. Violence is never ok
2. A one state solution where everyone is equal before the law is the answer.

Presumably, Palestinians would have some form of representative government. In your mind, who would that be? Who is that would represent Palestinian interests in setting up this single state you speak of? Because the only groups I see in any kind of serious contention for that honour are Fatah and Hamas. You say it's my "warped vision" that Palestinian "freedom" comes at the expense of Israeli security. You know who else says that? Hamas. Read their fucking charter. The only solution acceptable to them is muslims must fight Jews--and they cite the Quran to support this. You tell me this view does not represent the average Palestinian's view. If that's the case, why do they keep choosing leaders like Fatah and Hamas?

To be clear, here's my view. Israel is kept from being a fully democratic state due to the reality that granting full citizenship to non-jews would make them a minority in their own country and put them at the mercy of people who not only don't want to grant them a state, but have vowed to fight them as long as they "exist". This is the situation Jews face. Frankly, I can't think of any group of people who would be up for sharing a country with those committed to its destruction (present day Republicans excepted of course).

 

[sy barite]

Since Israel is totally at fault for everything and Hamas has no other option but to indiscriminately launch thousands of rockets given they way they've been mistreated, I really wonder why the U.S., Canada, the European Union and Japan amongst others all designate Hamas as a terrorist organization? That sure sounds like a lot of very smart, powerful people who have got this entire situation totally wrong.

After the death of Osama Bin Laden Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh told the world he considers Bin Ladin to be a martyr and an "Arab holy warrior". No doubt Bin Ladin also had zero choice in any of the purely defensive actions he undertook either... everything Bin Ladin unleashed surely must have been totally provoked by the West.

Countdown to a moronic accusation of "deflecting" 5.4.3.2.....